Thursday, May 31, 2007

Misnagdim and Chabad

One thing that I will never understand is the fighting that goes on between Misnagdim, Litvish, Yeshivish and Chabad. All of the groups mentioned have many problems with Chabad. I can completely understand why people would have problems with Chabad. I am personally not a Lubavitcher because i recognize that many of their customs are different and everything they do is not in touch with mainstream Judaism. At the same time I appreciate what they do and realize that even though they may be different they base everything they do on the Torah and have their sources for everything even though it might not be excepted by everyone. With that in mind, I want to ask the following question. If people have all these problems with Chabad and going around saying you cant eat there food or trust the heckshers or anything else how do you explain the following:
1. Most Italian wines under the OU are supervised by Rabbi Garelick who from my understanding is a Lubavitcher.
2. Almost everyone eats Rubashkin meat which is owned by a Lubavicher
3. Most of the Shochtim from Empire are Lubavichers
4. OK is one of the biggest Kashrus companies in the country which certify popular products such as Tropicana and Snapple and the office is located in Crown Heights.
5. Whenever someone goes on vacation in a not so Jewish place there is always a Chabad house that is there to help them when they need it.

Those five things are only a small examples of the hypocrisy i see with people who have problems with Chabad. When they are home they have no problem using "Chabad" products and when they are on vacation have no problem visiting a Chabad house. If you really have a problem then stand by what you believe in and don't use Chabad and bad mouth them at the same time. To top it off Avraham Fried is probably the most popular Jewish music artist and he is a Lubavitcher. If people have a problem with Chabad why is it OK to listen to his music?

I don't have answers to these questions since i don't understand why this occurs. If someone can explain to me why its ok to act like that please comment but all i see is hypocrisy. I want to restate that i am not a Lubavitcher just someone who doesn't understand how they can be attacked yet used at the same time.

9 comments:

Rafi G said...

I have had these same questions. The only answer I can think of is that these chabad people you use as examples are maybe not "meshichists" or "yechiniks", or at least if they are they keep it to themselves...

Anonymous said...

sorry, but the 'problems' ppl have with chabad didnt start with the meshichist stuff. u'r either too young or simply forgot, but throught lubavitch's history, at every step, there was antagonism. in the beginning when the Rebbe spoke about mivtzoim, everyone screamed how could u, yet today, every group does 'kiruv' and fights to get the ppl away from chabad.
that's the way it always was, not something new with meshichist. in the end, everyone agreed on every point, only it took about 20 years for each thing to become ok. so in 20 years time we'll talk.
and thank you to the author for posting bec. what u'r saying is very true. pple say the most terrible things publicly, but when they need, they know exaclty where to go. u know how many ppl publicly are 'against' and say terrible things, but when they need a brocho, they know exactly wehre to go? they know about the ohel, they know about the letters, i know this bec. u woudl be surprised how many and which ppl come to my parents to help them write to the Rebbe when they need soemthing. that part u dont know. u only know of the antagonism.
its ok. look at our history and u'll see. during the lifetime of the true Jewish leaders, they faced major antagonism from 'mainstream' jews, yet today, looking back, it is not question to us regarding the Rambams legitimacy. look into his life, they burned his books. but today, are u questioning him? chas veshalom! this happened over and over again. choose where u want to be. or at least, how u want to behave.

FrumWithQuestions said...

Rafi- I appreciate how you are trying to answer but like anonymous said these things were going on before there were meshichist poeple and yechinik people. Check out the video on my other post with Satmar singing Yechi.

Anonymous- I am not sure what you are trying to say. Whether you are agreeing with me and adding more to what i said or disageeing with what i said. I am well aware that this stuff has been going on for years it has just come to light more recently since Chabad is larger now and more spread out and run more things that everyday Jews take advantage of and dont realize.

Honestly Frum said...

Not everybody eats Rubashkin :-)

Anonymous said...

It seems that Chabad people provide some products, services, and ideas that are good and some that are neutral or bad. If you had a store like that on your block, you might shop there for some items and go elsewhere for others. If you knew the particular shopkeeper was a crook, you might be obligated to avoid his store altogether, but some good product inside might lure you in anyhow.

Anonymous said...

I can add another point.
#) Even the OU which is the worlds largest kashrus org uses hundreds of Lubavitchers to do supervison in all the far out cities and countries, so if you are eating any item with an OU on it, there is a 50% chance that the mashgiach is a Chabadnik.

As to the ones who say that it has to do with mishichist and yechi, that is hogwash. I grew up in boro park and the hatred the kids in my class, yeshiva, on my block, etc was unreal and that was 20 years ago.

It was spesificly that uncalled for hatred that drove me and 2 of my friends to become "friends and supporters" of Lubavitch.

Shmendrik said...

To the previous commentator: Give me a break. Lubavitch views are even farther outside the mainstream than most misnagdim assume. For details, see http://identifyingchabad.org/

To FWQ: The answer is, many people don't eat those things, or they may look into the specific situation with a specific product.

Rebbetzin said...

I just checked out the site you mentioned. identifyingchabad.org.

To answer their own question "Why have we Created this Web Site" they answer: "So no one should ever be able to say he hasn't got enough informationt to make an intellgient decision".

Please be informed that what is offerd on that site is all true material, and it is all one sided.

They write that "after having carefully read through the material, [anyone] can comfortable draw his own conclusions".

This gives the impression that they are offering a comprehensive view that would present both sides of the story. They don't.

It is completely one sided.

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