Sunday, August 20, 2006

This Past Shabbos Exerience with talkers

Now that I am feeling a little bit better, I was home for Shabbos and able to go to Shul to my regular minyan. For those of you who have read my posts here on talking in shul know how I feel about talking. This past Shabbos, I experienced something that got me so mad. The minyan I go to has the reputation of a no talking minyan and it usually is quiet all of davening and If it isn't the Rav will make sure that it is. This Shabbos there was an Aufruf and the Rav was away. Because of the Aufruf there were guests in the minyan. Guests are always welcome but if you are a guest you have to respect your hosts and act in the manner that is appropriate to your hosts. These guests in the minyan, sat in the back at a table and were talking the entire time. I don't know when these people daven if they are talking the whole time. We even had to stop davening a few times because these people would just not shut up. If you know that everyone else is not talking and people are shushing you and davening is stopping because of you, is that not a sign to shut up? In my opinion, I think these people should be asked to leave and never come back again. During the announcements, these kind guests had the chutzpah to leave, go to where the kiddush was set up, and started eating the food. First of all everyone was still in shul, and second of all, kiddush wasn't even recited. What gave these people the rights to act in this matter? Just because you wear a hat and gartle that means your frum and you can act this way? These are also the same people that wonder why there children go off the derech and blame it on the Yeshivas instead of looking at themselves. I don't know how to prevent myself from getting so angry when these people are doing these things right in front of your face. These people should not be allowed in any shul if they act this way and the Rav of shuls should throw these people out until they learn how to respect a shul and know how to respect Hashem. Do these people really think that Hashem is going to listen to their prayers when they are disturbing and ruining others prayers? I just don't understand and I think I will always get angry at this and there is no way to prevent it. The reason why you go to a shul that has no talking and respect for everyone is because you believe in that. These shuls don't need these Rashaim to ruin it and soneone needs to say something to them. If no one does it will spread like it already has. The majority of the frum community has become desensitized to this and unfortunately this behavior has become the norm in many shuls.


FrumellasGoneWild said...

I'm surprised no-one at least politely requested for them to quiet down. I can understand your frustration.

Litvak said...

Hey, now you're sounding like one of those Litvak killjoys. ;-) Way to go ! ;-)

"Just because you wear a hat and gartle that means your frum and you can act this way?" - I'm glad you realized what kind of people were causing the problem.

Stephanie said...

Did you ever hear of patience? My goodness you sure do have a chip on your shoulder! The people were obviously excited and happy..something you probably don't know anything about, atleast it sounds that way.

FrumWithQuestions said...

According to Mishmah Brerah you guys should be wearing a gartle not a belt. These people were clean shaving and judging from the neighborhood I am in they are one of you.

Stefanie- What does joy have to do with talking in shul? You can be happy and talk after without disturbing everyone around you.

These people were asked nicely as well as shushed and they did not respond.

Litvak said...

"According to Mishmah Brerah you guys should be wearing a gartle not a belt. These people were clean shaving and judging from the neighborhood I am in they are one of you."

1) I assume you mean Mishna Berura. If so, how about providing a source for that claim ?

2) I am sorry, Litvaks don't wear gartels generally, it's clear that they were people of Hassidic descent. For you to try to deny that is shocking. Is your prejudice against Litvaks that severe that you can't admit that these chutzpadik misbehaving people were clearly of Hassidic descent ? I thought you were basically an honest person, but you are causing me to wonder now.

FrumWithQuestions said...

Litvak- Yes the source was a spelling error. I go to a daily Halacha Shiur based on the Kitzur Mishna Berurah and in the beginning, I don't have one in front of me it is brought up.

Just because you wear a gartle doesnot mean you are from Chassidic descent. Like I said before, it is Halacha to wear a gartle. Before America whether you want to believe it or not the Misnagdim wore gartles. Some people still wear them while others take the typical Litvish outlook by saying that a belt is fine. Can you show me a source where it says that a belt or your waistband is the same as a gartle? I also want to restate that the neighborhood I livein does not have Chasidim. The actual Chasidim that live hear can be counted with the fingers on your hands.

Litvak said...

As far as I recall, the Mishna Berura doesn't say that one has to wear a gartel. If he did, do you think most Litvishe Rosh Yeshivas would do otherwise ? The same Rosh Yeshivas that are advocating the Mishna Berura generally ? So, unless someone shows me otherwise, I believe you are wrong about that.

"Before America whether you want to believe it or not the Misnagdim wore gartles."

Where did you get that from ? I wonder who is telling you such things.

I said that the people that were talking that got you all angry were of Hassidic descent, as is clear, and I stand by that, case closed.

FrumWithQuestions said...

Litvak- I will look it up tomorrow if I remember so I can give you an exact source. I also believe that many if not all major Rosh Yeshiva's that I have seen do wear long coats whether they are kapatas or bekashes , humburg hats and usually gartels so your statement about how they all follow the Mishna Bereruh and would follow that has just been refuted. I would also like to state that we do not poskin like everything that the Mishna Berurah says. I know when I ask my Rav a question he rarely uses that as his reference. Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim is probably the only place that uses that sefer exclusively.