Sunday, October 22, 2006

Men in the women section

Something that has always bothered me is when men sit in the women's section when they go to shul during the week. Why is this? This started to bother me more when I saw this topic in Mishna Berurah which states that one cannot not do this because it gives the appearance that one is starting a breakaway minyan from the main minyan. In small shuls if there are set times for davening and the minyanim overlap I can understand where there can be a leniency but if there is only one minyan and there is plenty of room, why does a person still find the need to sit in the womens section? What if there is a woman who wants to go to this minyan and there is a man in her section? Do you think a woman would feel comfortable asking him to leave? I don't think so. Although I am not an advocate for feminism in Judaism, I do believe that woman should go to shul if they can. If there are men in there section I don't know if they would feel comfortable. The next question on this topic is how come many shuls do not have room for women to come during the week. I don't think that this is right. Just like in America you have to be an Equal opportunity Employer the OU and Agudah and all the other magor groups that have affiliate synagogues should have Equal Opportunity DAvening allowing women to come to shul if they want. One of the old shuls I used to daven at before I got married, rearranged the minyan room when they hired a new Rav to allow women to come if they wanted. For 30 + years this didn't exist. I hope shuls will take my suggestion and men should stop davening in the womens section.

15 comments:

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

Why does it bother you, women don't come to shul during the week?

FrumWithQuestions said...

SWFM- I am not sure what you are saying with your comment. Some women do go to shul during the week especially if they are single or married with no kids and it bothers me because very few shuls have a place during the week where these women can go to daven with the minyan and when they do there are men sitting in their section which is against what the halacha states.

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

I didn't know that women go to shul during the week. Why would they ?

FrumWithQuestions said...

They would go because they can and wan't to and there is no reason why they shouldn't. If you go to some of the more modern communities there are even women who say Kaddish if you can believe that. I am not sure where you live but I guess you live in more of a chereidi community where this doesn't happen so much.

FrumWithQuestions said...

SWFM- I hope my comment did not sound obnoxious to you. I did not mean for it to come out that way. I hope you will still visit and comment. If it did sound obnoxious i apologize.

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

It's fine don't worry. I do live in a more orhthodox neighborhood. I just didn't know even modern ppl would be interested that's all. Not having to do with liberalism or anything. I am not surprised at women saying kadish. I am not surprised by much, this I just didn't hear of. I will still visit and comment I am not insulted.

FrumWithQuestions said...

What neighborhood do you live in? Maybe it occurs where you live and you haven't noticed since you don't go during the week

Yoel.Ben-Avraham said...

I'm atypical, as I live not only in Israel but in a "settlement" ... but it never ceased to impress me to look up in the Ezrat Nashim at 6:30AM or 8:30PM and see two or three mature women came to say tefilah with the minyan. I pray my boys will be as dedicated as these young women!

Anonymous said...

I usually lurke around this neighborhood but I feeled compelled to post a comment. What's a girl to do if she is in aveilut and has no brothers-only sisters? The fact that nobody is saying kaddish for her deceased parent leaves her with an emptiness in her heart- so she goes to shul to say kaddish- which is for the living-not the dead

AlanLaz said...

I was meaning to post something of this sorts - and I, too, am not a liberal/feminist at all.


To anon above: "Emptiness of the heart" does not necessitate saying Kaddish. Following halacha, however you hold, necessitates Kaddish

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

I won't say what neighborhood I am in. YOu could email me. Don't know why you have no email listed.

kasamba said...

Oh no!
Next they'll be using the Ladies Rooms too!

FrumWithQuestions said...

Just to add to this post, i think one of the reasons why the men go into the womens section is because they are coming late to minyan and they are concerned that other people would see them coming late and judge them. Therefore these people are embarrassed to come in late so they go to the womens sections hoping that no one will notice that they are late. When I am late for shul I just go in and don't care what people think but I guess I am different. If I am late enough I will go to another minyan that is just starting.

nuch a chosid said...

Those davning in the Ezrat Noshim need to say Sheosano Kirtzono, instead of Shelo osano Isha

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