Saturday, February 03, 2007

Motzei Shabbos Zemiros

Rabbi Moshe Shur wrote a niggun to Hinei Anochi Sholeach Lachem es Eliyah Hanavi which is a Pasuk in Tanach (I don't have a Tanach in front of me so I cannot site the actual pasuk. Someone please add in the comments if they know). From what I hear is that this niggun is sung every Motzei Shabbos on Moshav Moodin in Israel before Havdala. Since I have never been there, I cannot confirm but only repeat what I heard. This niggun was recently re-recorded by Shlomo Katz and put on his new album. I don't like the way this niggun is sung on this album but that is not what this post is about. Whenever Ben Tzion Solomon, Rabbi Shur or anyone else sings this niggun, they sometimes have to stop people from singing because they sing Eliyahu Hanavi. When they stop singing, they usually give a Dvar Torah, explaining why the Pasuk says Eliyah Hanavi and not Eliyahu Hanavi. With this going on, I always wondered why this happens. After all if a Jewish person is knowledgeable in Tanach and this is a common Pasuk sung Motzei Shabbos, people would know that it is Eliyah and not Eliyahu.
When I was listening to a Deveykus album, the root of this problem became clear. Deveykus has a niggun to this pasuk and they sing Eliyahu Hanavi. When I have heard people sing this niggun as well they sing Eliyahu Hanavi obviously the same way as the recording. How did this error happen? Next time i see Eli Kranzler I plan on asking him. He is the only one I know that was actually in Deveykus. With this topic brought up, I want to ask a question to all those people who rip into Reb Shlomo Chassidim for not being knowledgeable in Torah and just partying all the time. Who has more Torah knowledge in this case. Abie Rotenberg who I assume composed this or the Shlomo chassidim who sing a niggun to the correct words in the pasuk? I am curious if anyone can give me a good answer. Shavua Tov, Gut Voch.

16 comments:

D'varim P'shutim said...

Malachi perek 3 pasuk 23

Anonymous said...

1) What explanation do Ben Tzion Solomon and Rabbi Shur give why the Pasuk says Eliyah Hanavi and not Eliyahu Hanavi ? The one from Rashi ?

2) I hear your point. However, Eliyah and Eliyohu refer to the same person. It's just sometimes spelled without a vav. If you look in the meforshim on the posuk you will see that some say Eliyohu.

3) Perhaps there is actually a benefit to singing it in an altered form as some might say there are questions about singing a posuk by heart and singing one as a song. So if it's altered that might perhaps alleviate the situation.

Anonymous said...

There is a similar situation with the song ובאו.......בארץ אשור והנדחים בּארץ מצרים...............והשתחוו לה' בהר הקדש בּירושלים where many sing repeatedly ירושלים instead ofבּירושלים at the end of the song.

FrumWithQuestions said...

Anonymous 1 - I don't remember since I havent seen them perform in a while. I have a very bad memory which is something I need to work on. Even though it is referring to the same person it should be said or sung properly in its original context. About singing a Pasuk by heart and singing in general I believe is only a problem with an actual Biblical Shir such as Shir HaShirim. It was a big contorversy when Reb Shlomo sang Hashmiani even though he explained how he got a heter to do so. Tehillim and other Pesukim are sung all the time so I am not sure what you are getting at. I know there is a problem with the Shabbos Day kiddush because of Pesukim which is why some people only say Borei Pri Hagafen.

Anonymous 2- People should not do that either. There is also a similar issue when people sing Sheyibaneh Hamikdash and Yibaneh Hamikdash. The difference between my post and this example however is this issue in my post has to do with something that was recorded incorrectly and as a result people singing the wrong thing and your example is just about how people sing it. They are both problems but a result of two different things.

anonym00kie said...

ihave nothing to add to this discussion.. but.. i love the shlomo katz version, and the whole cd.. so so so good

FrumWithQuestions said...

Anonymookie- I like the CD also except for the way he does this one song. The way he does the nai nai nai just doesn't sound right.

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Anonymous said...

It's not only a problem with the name Eliyah, but the word just before it is "ayss", not "ess."

But either way, thses songs are a whole lot more palatable - even sung wrong - than what usually passes for Jewish music nowadays where the words and music have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Take "L'Gabay," for instance. The words are from a gemara in Yoma (70-something) explaining why the Kohen Gadol can sacrifice the Korban Tomid before (I think) the Avodas Hayom. Won't he be too tired to finish the Avodah if he sacrifices all seven goats of the Tamid? The gemara answers, "Don't worry, L'gabay Avodas Hayom Zariz Hu - when it comes to the Yom Kippur service he is careful/energetic/reliable (all those connotations)."

Now listen to the song and tell me if the tune has anything to do with the words. It's a waste of a good tune, if you ask me. He might as well have been singing "Shooby Dooby Doo."

Shmiel said...

Hey there anon. 3:04....The text not matching the tune is a huge problem with much of the jewish music that is being produced lately....I once would have assumed that it was just that the people writing the stuff were not as well versed in Pesukim as they were in music....but I've since learned that many composers who spend far more time learning Torah than I, do the same....I just don't get it.
Another is when performers just plain mispronounce stuff...like interchangeble "Bet and Vet" and Kaf and Khaf...I just think they spend as much time making sure their pronunciation is on as they do making sure that their(enter name of instrument) solo "burns"
Just .02 from a semi crotchety bass player

Anonymous said...

My Dear Shmiel-

You are not semi-crochety; you are completely-crochety, and you are a completely-good bass player, too.

So where are you this Sunday?

Anonymous said...

By the way, Frum-With-Questions-

The title of the post should be "MotzAei Shabbos Zemiros," not "Motzei Shabbos Zemiros."

Shalom said...

Re: mispronounced words in songs:

The one that burns me the most is in Neginah's "Chai Hashem", from their second album way back in '72 or so, where "va'yadber amim tachtoy" (Tehillim 18:48) is mispronounced "vayedaber". Yes, they're both spelled the same way, but what a difference in meaning! (I realize this song isn't performed much these days, and it really deserves to be heard more, but if you do play it, please say the words right. The correct pronunciation even fits the meter better, as it's three syllables rather than four.)

Not to mention "Kah ribon oilam". The word is "alam", in Aramaic, not "olam" in Hebrew.

As to mismatch between words and music. Probably the most egregious example of this is on the very first Miami Boys Choir album, circa 1977, where "someone" set the words "Elokay ad shelo notzarti" from the end of Viduy to a tune that would have been better suited as the theme to Barney or something. "Oh Hashem, tra la la, I am unworthy of existence, la la, I am dust, teedly dee," one can almost see the fairies flitting about sprinkling pixie dust on things. These words are among the most serious tefilos of the whole year, and this light-hearted theme is just insanely inappropriate. I heard this tune as a kid before I'd even learned the davening for the yomim noroim, and now every time I say those words I have this tinkly melody in my head. Totally ruins my kavonoh. Arrrgh.

Shmiel said...

Hey Sholom...I think that if we were to hold a contest as to most egregious offenders....we'd get many tied for first :-).....

Anon....Thanks (i think) for the props, I had Sunday night off....MSK on...and if we've performed together, Why u anonymous?

Bas~Melech said...

Anonymous-- thank you so much for explaining where L'gabay comes from. I have been puzzling over it ever since the song became popular; it is meaningless out of context and the song certainly doesn't do anything for it. At least now I won't be burning with the question of what it means! Not that this won't drive me nuts as well. I'm a stickler for singing words correctly and the mood of the song matching its original intent.

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